Ep 108-110, Feb. 2022:

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Today on Wisconsin veterans forward. So I said something on our live show the last time that we were on no two times ago that got me into a little bit of hot water. I, I used the phrase cuz it's nonprofit month. I said that the nonprofit world is strange and, and forgiving. It rubs some people the wrong way. Especially people that work in the nonprofit world. What do you mean strange and unforgiving. We're doing it's sun, we're doing great things. It's sunshine and rainbows and you know, and overarchingly. That's absolutely true. You know, I've been working in the nonprofit world almost exclusively since I've left the military with various, you know, organizations, I find it in many ways to be strange and, and unforgiving and it just has some unique, quirky things to it that you don't find in other kinds of organiz, the nonprofit world is just its own beast.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

And so what I wanted to do this week is talk about what it is that maybe makes the nonprofit world so different and why so many nonprofits get formed and launched and then disappear year after a short amount of time. Because I think a lot of people have great intentions. Most people have great intentions, especially the people that form a nonprofit. You know, they have altruistic intens. They, they wanna do good things. They wanna serve people. They wanna help people. And there are some things about the non world that people just don't consider and they form a nonprofit and then they realize, oh, raising money, isn't easy. It's hard. Managing a board is hard. Managing volunteers is hard telling your story and getting people to care enough to evangelize on your behalf for or your cause and your mission. And your vision is hard. It's not easy.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

So many people are like, Hey nonprofits, great, man. I don't have to worry about revenue. Don't have to worry about product sales or development or anything like that. Well actually you gotta, you gotta PE get people to part with their money. Just not receiving any like a good or service in return. You still have to get 'em to part where their money it's harder. And that's one of the things in a sea of many things that makes the nonprofit world a very misunderstood ecosystem, especially for people that don't work in it. And especially for people who aspire to their own nonprofit there's stuff that you have to know. So if you are thinking about, if you have in the back of your head, a bucket list or a retirement plan or a career transition plan, like I want to launch a nonprofit to help blank overcome blank or do blank or serve these people here is what you need to know.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

And I brought somebody in that's way smarter than me to talk about those things. My very good friend, Rashida Rashida Butler, Jackson of R BJ can community consulting. She's a nonprofit pro expert. She knows all of these things. She helps nonprofits succeed for a living. And part of what she does is get people when they're in the ideation phase. And I don't wanna say talk 'em out of it, but really get them to understand here is the full range of things that you need to know going into it. Because if somebody forms a nonprofit without the full picture and they don't succeed, it actually harms other nonprofits, especially non other nonprofits who are trying to raise funds from the same pool of donors. There is nothing that will disenfranchise a donor or a potential donor quicker than having them give their hard earned money up for a cause that they believe in only to watch that cause fold or not have an impact. Then the next actual real nonprofit that's making an impact comes around and asks for money. And that donor's not gonna do that again. And who, who, who could blame them. So when nonprofits fail, it impacts the whole ecosystem and the veteran nonprofit world, man, that is there's exception to that. We have almost 50,000, you know, self-proclaimed veterans serving nonprofits in the United States. Good grief.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

You can't, you can't sneeze without hitting, hitting a veteran, serving nonprofit and not all of them are targeted. And, and they Don last long, generally speaking, and they end up taking donors and resources and volunteers away from the ones that are actually making an impact that are targeted, that have that full picture and information that have the tenure and the longevity. Right? So this is important. Cause I work in the nonprofit space. I work in the veteran serving nonprofit space. It's important. It's important to me. I might start my own nonprofit someday. I don't know. So I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to picking Rashida's brain. You'll recognize her. If you've been watching this show for a while, cuz we had her on about a year ago. I think she might be our only return guest. That's how much I enjoyed her company the last time around. So I'm gonna stop yapping and we're gonna bring Rashida up and we're gonna do it right after this. You are listening to Wisconsin veterans forward. Wisconsin's premier audio resource for veterans, military families, veteran owned and veteran-friendly businesses, Wisconsin veterans forward is brought to you by the Wisconsin veterans chamber of commerce at wiveteranschamber.org, Rashida, my friend. How are you? You you're dancing. I, I think you're muted right now. Oh there, Hey, what's up? Yes,

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

I'm here. Hi. It's so good to meet. I'm good. I'm good. How are you?

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

I'm doing really, really well. Very excited. This is my only, you're my only return guest. I I I'm, I'm pretty sure you the only one who's who's come back. Mega history.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yeah,

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Go. So, so tell, tell us first off a little bit about what, what you do and, and how you do it. And then we can dive right into like, what are the things that somebody that if somebody comes to you and says, I wanna start a nonprofit, you tell them, okay, here's what you really need to know that other people aren't gonna tell you.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yes. I love this question. Well again, good morning, everyone. Regita Butler Jackson from RBJ community consulting. And like Adam said, what I do is I support nonprofits and community organizations primarily in the Milwaukee and surrounding area communities. I also work with clients outside of the, of Wisconsin. I do a lot professional development, strategic planning for nonprofits, a lot of like staff support and development, project management and support, things like that. But like all Adam said, one of my favorite things to do is help people to start their all nonprofits or figure out if it makes sense for them. So when someone comes to me and they say Rashita I'm and I I'm that person that has to give that really tough, but necessary love to make sure that they've done their homework and make sure that, you know, we have this tie and the sky dream of how we wanna make impact, but we don't also have the ingredients that we need to make sure we can bake that pie and make it really yummy and successful and enjoyable. So we're talking to business plans, we're talking market research, we're talking, do you actually have board members in mind that are not your cousin or your best friend or your spouse because there's conflict of interest there to be difficult when you're forming a board. So we have those really tough conversations and we really figure out if this is something you to do, or is it better for you to try to support efforts that are already in place like Adam said earlier and help to fuel those missions with a little more impact?

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

How many ti, how often is it that somebody comes to you wanting to start a nonprofit? And they think they have, they, they think they have an I D but then you talk to them and you can just kind of see them shrink and wither <laugh> as they get to understand how much they just don't know and how specialized of a space this is.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Oh my gosh. I would say I probably get non-profit starter requests at least once a week. And what I do is I'll offer a 50 minute consultation to say, Hey, let's talk about this. And then like you said, by the end of that call, it's usually thanks. I've got some things to do. <Laugh> I'll get back to you and then you never hear from them again

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

<Laugh> oh, wow. But it's, it's good. It's like you know, we, we, at, at the chamber, we had a, a business incubator that, that, you know, that EV every year, this command post and for us a successful outcome is obviously getting seed funding or getting employees or premises, some sort of scaling, but successful outcome for us as well is having an aspiring business owner realize that their idea or plan or ambition to be an entrepreneur in the first place is not a good idea. And to go in a different path, that's a successful outcome because people put a lot of stuff on the line for something that they that's not exactly may not be the right thing. So how often do you see that? And, and what are the things that you tell those people that they need to know?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yeah, that's really good. And I think it's awesome that you all do that so offline. I wanna hear more about that. <Laugh> cause I'm like, I wanna be able to like, give that as a model for what other people should be doing, but yeah, it definitely it, and again, it's not to discourage people like we were talking before we went live. We're not here to like discourage you and shut you down, but we want you to be successful. And like, I, what, for me, I'm not out here to just check the box of like how many nonprofits I can start. I'm out here to say in a year, in two years, in three years, clients that I work are still prospering, they're growing, they're successful. Right? And so again, people don't even think about things like startup costs, right? Brand and marketing for your nonprofit people, don't treat nonprofits like business.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

And that is a problem in itself. The same way you run a for-profit business, the same way you run a corporation, you need a budget, you have a, you have to market. How do people get to your services? We're in the middle of a pandemic. How are you speaking to a virtual audience, right? When you would normally provide services in person, do you have a plan for those types of things? And like, especially now with the pandemic, we're seeing a lab nonprofits did not make it through this pandemic because the sustain was not in place. So we can look at the data. We can look at the numbers and see that if you don't have that sustainability plan, you are not gonna make it see a year or two year. I mean, 50% over 50% of nonprofits fail within the first one to two years. And that's data like that. That's not me making that up. That is like what the numbers say. And we just don't want you to see that.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

And we out absolutely. You, you mentioned startup costs. And I think that's, that's an important point. There's a lot of important points in there, but startup costs, we found in the for-profit business helping people start their for-profit businesses or scale them. One of the startup costs that sneaks up on people that they do not even consider is subscription fees for digital platforms. Like how much it costs you to have a website, web hosting a a, you know, an Adobe membership, a Canva membership you know, a Co-Schedule membership, all of those things that just pile up the stuff that, that in our personal finance adds up. You know, we, we cut, we cut the cable, we don't have big cable anymore, but then we have Hulu and Netflix and Disney and, and all of things that just add up, but they can really, especially for on a business or enterprise level, those subscription fees are hefty and they add up. So is, is that also true in the nonprofit world and what are some of those other startup costs that, that sometimes surprise people?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Well, even more so in the nonprofit space add, as you know, donor management is huge. So having CRMs, having donor management platforms having a new letter and, and a space, you know, whether that's mail check where you're, you know, collecting email addresses and building up your mailing and supplying list, that is so important, particularly in a non-profit space, because so much of nonprofit workers, you buy those individual donations and sponsorships. So investing in mailing, because you're sending out those traditional thank you cards and letters, postage you know, small things like that, that, like you said, you think about, but they add up within a year, you're spending tons of money on stamps and paper and, you know, letterhead and printing and faxing. And, you know, all of these things come with the cost. So absolutely I would say sometimes even more so, and then just gorilla marketing, getting out, handing out flyers, going door to door, giving people, pamphlets about the work you do. There's a cost behind all of that. You have to pay to get that. Absolutely. In nonprofit work, it's super, super crucial.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Well, and a lot of people don't know that it, depending on how many people, you know, MailChimp is a great example, they will charge you based on the number of active subscribers that you are sending your mail to. And, you know, for, for like the Wisconsin veterans chamber, our mailing list. I mean, we're talking many, many hundreds of dollars every month and that stuff that people don't necessarily budget for. I, I mean, yeah. Our, and we recently paired ours down, you know, we, we took ours. It was, you know we took all the people who hadn't opened a newsletter in the last, like six months. And we're like, you know what, we'll just go ahead and just cut you out. And we were able to reduce, you know, our monthly fee as a result and increase our open rates and retention rates by a ton. But it's still several hundred dollars a month to E to just have that. And you mentioned a CRM. So are you saying people that come to you that think that they can just manage all of their donors and fundraising stuff on a spreadsheet? You kinda steer 'em in a different direction. Let's talk about that.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Rashita. I have a planner and I use sticky notes. What do you mean? I can't manage the hundreds of clients on behalf. You, you get better go and come back in three months and let me know how that works out for you.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> absolutely. Yeah. Show me your trapper keeper in three months. <Laugh> so yeah, like,

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yeah, yeah. Right, right, exactly. And then I'm like, okay, so you mean, I can't do that. And I'm like, yes, we have to realize that like running a business and especially because the other piece of this is tracking numbers. When those donations come in, they can't just live in a notebook and you write down who gave you money and how much you have to buy your nine 90 S at the end of every tax year. Even if you don't make money, you still have to tell the IRS, you didn't make money. So having an accountant, having a system that tracks your expenses and your income and your donations again, having the follow up system for your donors so that you can work from, and really like flush out those relationships and strengthen them. Like, again, all of that stuff, you can't track that in Google, Google sheets is wonderful.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

It is not gonna get the job done. If you want to grow, and the work that your nonprofit is doing. So like you said, hundreds of dollars, and that's just for one platform. I remember when Facebook and Instagram, do you remember that? A couple months back mm-hmm <affirmative> oh, my God. Business owners were like, what are we gonna do? If it doesn't come back because you don't have a website, you don't have a LinkedIn presence. You don't have any other space to market. So at their minimum, you need to have a website. And I would suggest investing a little money in it. If you want it to be, you know a visual of, of who you are and what your brand is. I mean, the free templates are great. They'll get the job done, but eventually you wanna add on, you wanna be able to take payments, you wanna be able to take donations. And so you're gonna have to pay like you can't depend on Facebook and Instagram forever to market our businesses. Sorry. Yeah. Facebook

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Can't go. Facebook cannot be your main platform. You know, whether, whether you have a lot of website traffic or not, a majority of your traffic could come via Facebook referral via Instagram referral. That's fine. But you have to have a home base. You can't put all of your eggs in, in, in one marketing BA basket, and definitely not on a social media platform because it's, especially depending on your target audience, your target audience may not be using Facebook. And if you put all your eggs in that basket, or they could be Facebook users now, but in five years, they could all be using Instagram. And then, and then, and then what are you gonna to do? You need to have a home base and that costs money, but what it also does, and you mentioned a CRM client relationship management system you meant that costs money obviously, but you also have to put time and resources and effort into learning how to use that software and how to not only use it just to track things, but to make projections, because you have to inform a board or potential donors on your future potential and all these things, how much education goes in and how much time do people have to set aside to just get educate usually.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

And how much of that when you tell them is like, oh man, I don't, I don't know any of this stuff when you're dealing with an average client.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Really, really good question. So I always kind tell people, especially if it's a brand platform you're going to, and people really don't believe this, but I know to most of your week sometimes is fit learning that platform, learning the features, learning how to use it. A lot of these platforms offer like tech support, technical assistance. So you're setting up calls with those representatives several times a week. How do I do this? How do I run this report versus this report? And what's the benefit of running this versus this report? Do I wanna track that data or is that important for me? So even just sitting down and figuring out how you wanna use a CRM can take hours upon hours to figure out how to make it work for you. And especially again, I've saying since the pandemic CRMs have changed so much zoom has added so many features has added.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

So because they realize the digital is on the rise. So now if we're familiar with CRM or you're still having to learn the new features and the new addons and the new ways to create subscriptions, so it can take, I'd recommend taking at least, you know, 10 to 15 hours, a just playing with the platform, sending out test, figuring out formatting for your newsletter. All of that stuff takes time. It really, really does. You might have an email list for one thing, but an email list for something else. And how do you make sure that you are populating those email lists properly? Do you wanna try demographics around zip and you know, like all of those types of things, you have to take time to figure out you can't just say I have a CRM work. <Laugh> things I want you do it. It does. It doesn't work that

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

You, you have to take the time too, to do the research on the front end to make sure that you're getting the right CRM. Because the, the thing about using software, if you have a nonprofit, if you are, if you are getting enough donors and building enough relationships to keep your nonprofit alive, that means you have enough that is worthy of being managed by a CRM. You really just can live these days without it. But you have to make sure that that CRM is right for you and right for your organization. And because almost every facet of your organization has at least a toe in with that CRM. There's so much that it's dependent upon on. If you pick the wrong CRM, one that doesn't have good customer support one that isn't right for your organization, holy cow, you spend all this time investing and building all of these processes and logistics and operations for your organization around it. Only to determine that like, this is no, not a good fit. I need to go to another CRM. I'm sorry. I've been through three CRM migrations with two different organizations, three migrating, a CRM is one of the most awful things that, that you can do. And it's almost hard to recover from because nothing ever translates. So how much do you really harp on people? Like, not just learning how to use the software, but you need to devote time to make sure that you're not wasting your time.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Well, first of all, Adam, I feel for you, like when you said that in traumatizing me just through like <laugh> indirect because I know CRMs are no. So my prayers are with you, my friend <laugh> I hope that you're recovering from that. Well, yeah. The other piece of it is absolutely like some people don't even know what CRM bar and they're like, do I need a mailing list? You absolutely need a mailing list. Like sometimes we treat mailing lists, like they're a thing of the past. And I don't think people really see the value and, and what a mailing list is and how it can be used. Right. And like the beauty of being able to reach this broad audience in a really specific and unique way. So even people that don't, so someone comes to me and I'm like, well, do you have a CRM?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Or like, how you gonna manage your clients or your customers and the, and the people that you're working with. Well, what's that, do I need to do that? I was just gonna have signin sheets at the front and let people, and I'm like, all right, red flag, red flag, Adam, we should this just like the red flag, red flag is gonna do it. Then you wanna apply for a grant and you don't have any numbers. You don't have any data. You don't have any stories about the people you're serving. And you think somebody's gonna give you $50,000 when you cannot provide any tangible thing that tells them why they should give you, you should be tracking everything, how people come to you, right? Like, how did you hear about our nonprofit? Because you need to know what's working people. Don't right. So like, if nobody is hearing about you from Facebook, you might wanna scale that that doesn't mean totally become, you know, not existent on Facebook, but maybe putting more time into Instagram, if that's where all your customers are coming from or your clients or the people you're serving.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

I love that you talked about cleaning up your mailing notes. Do you know, you should look at your open rates, your click rates, you know, the, the, the turnover rate of like our people actually, you know, coming over, like clicking to the blog and clicking to the website for your newsletter, like pack the, know, all of that stuff. If you're running your organization, because you need to know what's working. And especially as a smaller startup time is of the essence. So we cannot afford to waste time on things that are not giving us a return. So again, I'm talking to people and I'm, and they're like, I didn't even know that was thing. You're probably not.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

It's incredible. You know, people view nonprofit organizations as something that's really fueled on good vibes and warm fuzzies. And like I said earlier, sunshine and, and rainbows. But you mentioned the mailing list, for example definitely not a thing of the past. If you have a targeted mailing list in that you didn't just fill it with people that you bought off the internet or people that you, that didn't know you or whatever. If it's filled with people who are, are, they know they're being included and they wanna be included. If it's a targeted mailing list, your clickthrough and conversion rates on that thing will be 10 to a hundred times what it would be on Facebook and for, or a fraction of the cost. But also having something like MailChimp or some sort of a, a relationship management software to understand what those clickthrough rates are, because you don't get big money grants for warm fuzzies and feelings.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

This is a data driven industry tree, and that's something Rashida and I years and years and years ago worked for a nonprofit together that when it came to data, holy moly, did they have their stuff together? They just, everything was intro surveys, outro surveys, you know, three month later surveys data compilate. I mean, they really did that. Right. And as a result, they were able to say, here are the here's our outcomes. Aren't just, well, these people had this great thing happen. It was here's how many people we impacted and to what extent with numbers and data and percentages, and that's how they were able to get the grants and the, the financial support that they needed to keep going. And they're still going and successful today because they're largely data driven. How many people that you tell that to, you know, that have the trapper keeper and the planner tell them, you need to be logging so much data. It's gonna make you uncomfortable. How many of them just don't even believe you? Cuz it seems like too much until you're actually there.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yeah. That's a really good question. A lot of people are very anti data. Like people are not, people are scared of numbers. People are scared of conversion rates. People like people don't understand the value in data. Now when I start to talk about money, now that ears is part up. Because like I said, like I just said, if you, if you want people to give you money, you gotta be able to tell people why, why you starting the nonprofit and why do you matter? Because like you said, that I can go over to the chambers of commerce. They got it together. I know what they're doing. They're reputable. They're in the community, okay. You're a startup retro op over here. Why should I give my money to you? Instead of giving it to someone who's established, who has impact who? And that, those numbers, that data, that time that you put into really telling a story of a nonprofit is gonna make all the difference.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

So when you say are talking about the money piece of it, now people listen. But even if it's not money, you need to know if what you're doing is working. What you're doing is working. Excuse me. So if you're not collecting data, if you're not collecting satisfaction surveys, if you're not collecting data about from the clients that you're working with, you know, that says, Hey, yep, I'm better. Because this service came into my life. I understand myself better because this service came into my life. Then how do we know that what woman is working? So we break it down like that, then people kinda start to hear it. But again, data is not the automatic thing people think about when they get excited about the women fuzzy, because data is not always warm and fuzzy data can disappoint you. Data is tough love and like a hard, poor conversation. You're not ready to have, and that's not warm and fuzzy, but it is a wake up process to make adjustments so that we can do what we set out to do. I can't just start in our pocket because I love puppies, right? Like you, you have to have more than just, I love puppies and I wanna start in to help help. That's not gonna get you anywhere. It it's just not so that I remember like your why and sustainability.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

I, I remember growing up, we had a main street in my city growing up and there seemed to be a revolving door of new businesses that would come in last six months and leave they'd come in last six months and leave. There were a lot of crafting and hobby shops of very specific niche things. And I remember we would drive through and my dad would say, none of these people have done market research. He's like, just because you are into model airplanes, doesn't mean that this, this store on main street and downtown sun Prairie is right for model a model airplane store. Like if you're into it, that's great. But passion does not equal business. And he'd be like, they're gone in six months and they'd be gone in six months and they'd be replaced by another niche hobby thing that, that I'm sure could have been successful somewhere, but not there, not, not in that place, not for that audience, not for that city, not at that time because they just, they thought a hobby or a passion could fuel everything else and that doesn't make it.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

And I think nonprofit folks are 10 times as guilty of being, you know, for better or for worse for being pulled by their purpose and their passion and their desire to serve others into almost diluting themselves into thinking that they don't need to worry about the business, these sort of things like the data and the numbers. And like you said, you have to have the data. One to inform your decisions is what I'm doing working. Or am I spending $5,000 a month on Facebook ads that end up costing me $250 a click? You know, like, and also because you have to tell grant funders are not gonna give you money without data. And so in to grants, I want to ask you the fundraising aspect though. Well, I'll just, I'll just ask people for money. That's easy. I've heard it a hundred times. Like, oh, we'll just raise money. You know, once it ask people for money, it'd be great. How easy do people think it is to get people to part with their money to support a brand new cause. And how many of them come crashing down to reality in, in short order?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

<Laugh> if I, if I had to give it a percentage, because again, fundraising is just that thing that like, it's not even my thing. So I'm listen. I hate the people for money. It is not easy at all. Probably 80% of the people that I talk to feel like I'm just gonna do a Facebook fundraiser. I'm gonna do a GoFundMe. I'm gonna do a, you know, like all of the different platforms of like, people are gonna gimme money because they love me. And what I always tell people is like, I sell color street. I sell color street, nails strips. Like that's something I do on the side is something I love something I enjoy. When I first started selling color street, all my friends and bought poetry because they wanted to support you. They were like, oh, miss you're selling meals, we'll buy a couple sets.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Or do you think that that return rates has been successful? Absolutely not. I have had to go outside of my friends and family because people will support you once and think they've done your job. So if you're thinking that your friends and family are going to support your nonprofit for the next 10 years, we are sadly, it takes a lot of research before you even talk to a, to research. What are they passionate the to five years? What organization are they a part of that you might be able to speak to? How do you connect? What do you have in common? All of that takes time in research before you even get to the app. So yeah, you can throw out a Facebook fundraiser for giving today and you might get five or $600, but again, sustainable fundraising is a skillset that honestly, not a lot of people have, especially when they're just like, I wanna start an organization cause I'm passionate because you're even thinking about what it takes to run. Everybody can start a nonprofit. Like I just wanna be very clear. You fill out the, get the, but to keep, to maintain the nonprofit, it takes a skillset of being able to know how to ask for money and reach people in a way that is not just well you're my family. So gives me money <laugh> or you love homies too. Gives me money

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Like <laugh> right, right.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Doesn't work that way. Red flag.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Well, and when you're, when you're passionate about something, that's, that's where that comes in. You know, I always found like it was a lot easier to ask for or money when I, I believed in what I was asking for. I had no problem. And, and it's a lot easier when you really take the time to develop relationships with people, because then it's almost not an ask. You know, like if I know John and Jane Smith are really excited about X happening in their community and I come to them and say like, Hey, here's a project that I think you'd be really interested in that we're looking for support from that the checks write themselves, but it's building your relationships to those points and being able to convey the story and the need in a way that gets those checks to write themselves. It's like it's like an overnight success that took, you know, 25 years of hard work to get to <laugh>.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

You know what I mean? It's like every fundraising ask is, is that, and so people think it's, it's easier to do, but it's not. I had a buddy who started a nonprofit brilliant guy, ended up being very successful with it. But the first year it was a GoFundMe and then a Facebook fundraiser. And then two weeks later, another Facebook fundraiser and another one too. And so like each Facebook fundraiser collected less and less and less and less. And it's not that people cared less or supported him less it's it's that they gave their donation. Like you said, they did their, they did their thing, you know? And, and so you need to be able to expand and reach and reach more people and tell the stories of the impact and data helps, but also just plain old fashioned, like you said, boots on the ground face to face marketing. And because just cuz you're passionate about something and believe in something doesn't make you an effective storyteller or marketer. So how, how much of a reality check is it for people that maybe have passion, but aren't that comfortable putting themselves out there, but then they realize that that is an absolute part of it that you cannot skip.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Well, this is why I tell people too, that it's super important to think about how you're building up your team. Because as a nonprofit founder, you don't need to know all the things it's like. I don't wanna send this message that you have to be a RA. You have to be a data person and you have to be a programs person. That's not, you know, I don't think we're saying that what I am saying is that you have to have of an I for what that looks like so that you can build up your team to have the right supports and the right people in place. So again, if you don't even understand nonprofit fundraising for yourself, how can you find board members who are skilled in that to bring to the table? So you still have a due diligence and a responsibility to understand the pieces that make up successful nonprofits, even if it's not your skills.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

And that's why, you know, how you formed your board with the interns you bring in the volunteers that you bring in being able to know what you need and why you need it is key when you're trying to expand. So, you know, again, like you said, Adam, I did not envy you. When we worked at that organization together, I saw how you used to go out every day and literally have to build relationships and how to work with people and try to teach them about the work we were doing and why they should care about it. And like that is again, that's not something that I good at, but I was like, all right, that's Adam's thing. And one of the things that I love that you do on LinkedIn is you talk consistently about authentic on relationship. You cannot just hop in my DMS on the end and say, Rashida, come get insurance through me because I added you on LinkedIn.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Right. And it's like, you don't even know me or like my story or who I, or you know, but like ins it's absolutely the same take same. I had to like, you can't come and say, sit on my board because you love puppies. And I love puppies. What you can come to me and say is like Rashita, I've been watching you. Like I know, I see how you love facilitation. You love program and project management. I have, like you said, this nonprofit project I building here's some specific ask. Would you be interested in joining or would you, you be interested in connecting me with someone who wants to join my board? You gotta do your homework. You can't just say, oh, I like you. You like me be on my board. I like you. You like me, you know, be my social media person. So there's so much work, Adam.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

I mean, and again, like, I feel like a five minute conversation is not enough. It's like we need like a part aspart theories to talk about dancing. Like there's so much. And again, I'm not here to discourage. I'm just here to keep it real. That like, I mean, the data that you hear about how many veterans serving nonprofits, there are, it's astonishing to me. It's like, what? And I just told you because of you, I'm getting more familiar with that space, but I don't these other organizations, I don't know the impact. I don't, and that's not a knock to them, but it does mean that like, do we really need to keep creating them or do we need to centralize our support and our efforts and join the board for the non volunteer at other nonprofits become a mentor at the nonprofit, donate your money to the nonprofit instead of creating a whole nother one that does the same stuff. How can you fuel something that's already existed?

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

That's an important, that's an important step one. Does your nonprofit idea our already exist in your area? The, the people who you're trying to serve, is there already somebody trying to serve them in a similar fashion and Elaine saying, wow, insightful and helpful. Appreciate you watching. Elaine. And yeah. That's her first comment today from LinkedIn. Linkedin gets the first comment award. Thank you very much, Elaine. So yeah, you have to, you have to know, is there somebody already doing it? Are you gonna crowd the space out? Are you being redundant? That's a huge issue. Redundancy. or do you have a specific target or niche? That's a little bit different. Okay. Than it than if so, that's fine. But that's an important consideration. So let's say someone has finished listening to this 45 minutes 30 minutes of us saying, here's, here's a sum of the realities, cuz the reality, the actual thing is a little bit bigger and, and even more scary than that, but they are not deterred.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

They, they say I can and will do all that. I now I think I have a thorough under standing. I'm going to, I'm gonna do this. I'm not being redundant. There's nobody in my space, in my area that does this and will do it in the way that I plan on doing it. And, and these people still have a need. That's being unserved. I'm gonna serve it. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna market. I'm gonna get our CRM. I'm gonna know how to do it, use it. I'm gonna ask people for money. I'm gonna like, I, I got startup costs. I'm gonna do all these things. What do you tell that person then? What is step one? After coming to terms with all of those things, if they are not deterred, what do they do? How do they start a nonprofit?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Well, kudos to you. If you're notd after all of this and I need that type of, to bounce back write it down. I wanna see a business plan. I do not take on nonprofit startup appliance unless they have a business plan and your business plan cannot be a one pager. It can be a two pager. I need to see a thorough, thorough business plan of larger research. Have you looked at within a 10 mile radius, all of the organizations that trying to serve that serve the same demographic you're trying to serve. Do you have your startup startup cost up and a plan for where those dollars are coming from? You have a mission. I mean, Adam, I know about library talked about mission, personal mission, business, mission, mission, vision. Do you have a logo? Do you have a name for, I wanna see all of that in a business plan.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

And when you say business plan, that's a scary word for people. Oh, I can't just tell you what I wanna do. I can't just, you won't just do it. If I tell you what I wanna do, you won't help me with the paperwork. No, because if you haven't written it out for yourself and taking the time to invest for yourself, how do I know that you're gonna take the time to invest in a nonprofit? The nonprofit is a heck of a lot more work than a 10 business plan. So if you can't even commit discipline yourself to do a 10 page business plan, I don't think that you're ready run a nonprofit. And that is usually the thing where people are like, okay, can we set up another call in a couple months? And you never hear from 'em again, but that is and running the numbers. I'm happy to share it with people

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Running the numbers is sometimes enough to get them to understand that this is not something that they should be doing. Sometimes that is enough just running the numbers portion of it, not even the, the, the market research, how much money they think on a month, they need on a month to month basis to survive.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

And even without a brick and mortar. Cause a lot of people are running organizations without buildings and office basis. So even without cause people are like, well rent and you know, all these types of things. No, no, we're not even talking about brick murder costs. We're talking about okay. Costs of, like you said, running month to month just running a business and all that takes. So like yeah. If you're looking at those numbers until it out and then saying, well, I'm just gonna do it on me. Okay. Do the, on me first, get the money and then, then come back and talk to me. Right. And then Adam, last thing I wanna say is like, I call it the Tyler effect right. Where it's like, but why? And we know we've all been there where our kid is asking a question and then you answer it. And they're like, but why? And then you answer it again. You go another level, you peel back that again. They say, but why? Right. So I call it the effect I tell. And I work with, I want you to go deep down as you can. Okay. I wanna serve veterans. Why? Well, because I'm a veteran. Okay. Why, why, why did you become a veteran? Let's talk about that. Like, why is that important

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

For you? That's great advice. Oh.

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

You know, and keep going down. And if you realize that you get stuck at like, I wanna serve veterans, cause I'm a veteran, that's probably not the best reason to start you can't

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

I, I there's so much, there's, there's so much good information in there. And, and oh, by the way having a business plan will not only inform your decisions and you know, is a requirement for somebody like Rashida to be, to be able to work with you and support you in the first place. But anyone who funds a startup nonprofit will need to see it too. They'll need to see it too. That's super important. Rashida, I cannot thank you enough for joining us. I feel like we could talk for another hour about this. Let's set a date. Let's do this again next nonprofit month for sure. I have your, your website along the I'm there for anybody that's interested in learning more. She has a a free resource. If you go, it's a what is it? Why don't you tell us about it?

Rashidah Butler-Jackson:

Yeah, it's a basic resource guide I put together three pages that kind of talks about basically everything we talk about today. I have a link that I can share for a business plan table and then just some other free resources to kind of help you get started on a path to start in our process. So yeah.

Adam Braatz - WVCC:

Check it out. Excellent. Yeah. And that's so that's RBJ community for those of you that her listening rbjcommunity.com. And I will put, if you're listening via the podcast, I'll go ahead and put that link in the show notes she has on the top, it says free nonprofit startup guide. She's one of the best in the business out there. And you can tell very knowledgeable, very personable. She wants you to succeed. So definitely make sure to connect with Rashida on that stuff, man, she's one of my absolute favorite guests. That's why she's, she's returning for nonprofit month and, and we should definitely bring her back for, for next nonprofit month. When we do that next year, probably next February, super knowledgeable, man. What an enjoyable conversation appreciate all of you joining us this this morning or whenever you're listening this afternoon, this evening, whatevs, we appreciate you joining us either way at Wisconsin veterans forward. See you next time. Thank you for listening to Wisconsin veterans forward brought to you by the Wisconsin veterans chamber of commerce. Please visit us at wiveteranschamber.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast, leave a rating and review in whatever platform you're listening through.